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[Music]
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Hello and welcome to a new edition of the digression, where I occasionally
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Occasionally, in fact, whatever, does not deviate from the topic. Greetings go out, dear Frank. Yes,
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Today's topic is immunotherapy. The topic is currently with us, with me in the circle of acquaintances,
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Family is just a big topic and it's just about an autoimmune disease and you can
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with normal, with the classical forms try to treat this tome,
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But you can also do immunotherapy and then just hope for better results.
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So what is immunotherapy? It is a treatment that specifically targets the immune system.
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It affects, rather than fighting symptoms or the pathogen. There are certain substances,
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proteins, the defense system controlled in such a way that you get control of the disease or
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even extremely containment. This can be imagined as a kind of software optimization in the body. In the case of:
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In autoimmune diseases, this works really well because the immune system is so
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is active and then attacks the body itself and the immune system becomes
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throttled. In cancer or other infectious diseases, the immune system
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strengthened, i.e. almost overactivated, in order to keep the weak immune system on its toes
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bring. Why do you do that? To slow down inflammation, for example in the case of psoriasis or stop
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in order to selectively block cells, i.e. division, or to cause – which is also very often – side effects,
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which causes the normal treatment to stop, bypass or suppress. Because through
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various forms of amplification by other drugs, that the side effects
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The classic treatment then simply become so strong that it is no longer reasonable.
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There are three functional mechanisms. There are different approaches, so that would be almost
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Monoclonal antibodies, which are tailor-made protein molecules that block certain
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Bodies of the immune system work by blocking the receptors on the antibodies. This
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It's like a key-lock principle.
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And through contact with pathogens, the cells of the defense system quasi learn the structure
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know the pathogen and can then go so specifically before it.
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By blocking them, these docking points, the immune system will stop for this one.
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special pathogen type shut down. Then there are immunomodulators. These are
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Medications that boost or lower the immune system in its activity.
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It's like a power plant where you have more fuel.
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If you add more fuel, it will go up, and if you add less fuel, it will go up.
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Shut it down. So you can activate the immune system with certain substances and stop
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Strengthen or weaken. And then there's the third group, that's vaccine-like.
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Therapeutics. They specifically stimulate an immune response against a specific cell structure. Yes, these are
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The three ways in which they work. Then there are combination preparations or combination terapias,
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where two types are combined. But usually it's always one, two or three.
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Main diseases are often acne, psoriasis, rheumatic diseases,
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Where there are joint inflammations. Actually, these are a lot of inflammatory processes,
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where you do this and this is also being researched all the time and you find again and again
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new things. In Acne Inversa, for example, antibody therapy is used to treat certain
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Inflammatory messengers, for example, this, now it is blocked very professionally, TNF-alpha. This
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significantly reduces flare-ups and inflammation. Acne Inversa is a pretty nasty
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diseases affecting the armpits, with inflammation, abscesses to severe scarring,
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Not only outside, but also inside the tissue and in the groin under the armpits.
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Actually, any region can be affected, but where skin rubs against each other or strongly
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sweating and also strong
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The production of sebum can be increased.
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occur.
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The benefits of therapy are that it works.
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very targeted, much better than classic
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Medications such as cortisone or broad
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antibiotics, immunosuppressants.
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There are far fewer side effects because only a small, specific part of the immune system
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is influenced.
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Disadvantages are, it is really very expensive, you can not take this at home because
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it is given either by infusion or by syringe and because the drug is so expensive,
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You can't get it in the pharmacy, either.
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It is held in institutes, in
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Ambulances, in the hospital or something
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and may be administered there. And now comes a
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Things that are serious too.
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Depending on the type of
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Treatment poses a risk to
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Infection greatly increased. So I know people, that's at Acne Inversa, for example, they have to
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Once again completely vaccinated, if the vaccination status is not exactly optimal.
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That's really … So it can be expensive, because you need such special vaccinations,
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In other words, the entire hepatitis group or something and you have to pay for it all yourself. And that beats
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That's a total of 200 euros. Then you have to do an HIV test.
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You have to take a pregnancy test. The normal one is not enough,
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Which you can do at home. Then it must be done the pregnancy test on the blood.
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Unfortunately, there are many benefits that the health insurance company does not pay for. Yes, these are the disadvantages.
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And now we get to the point of why this is an issue for me. If you are as focused as
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such a small Swiss army knife intervenes in the body, it is not far to the
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Gene therapy, where you even make changes to the genetic information. And
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And then, at the latest, ethical and moral aspects occur.
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And yes, classical medicine is always designed to treat symptoms.
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So I get there with a cough or a cold and then I get a hold
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some painkillers, go the headaches and leather pains, then I get another one
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cough reliever, maybe also a painkiller that works against fever, because I also have a little
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I have a fever. And then I have 14 days of bed rest. The interesting thing is, with or without
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I need pills for about the same amount of time, because the body just takes so long to take these pills.
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Infection so far to get through that one is after that again efficient. I can only once
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I once had pneumonia and it took me four months to
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It was powerful again. I've been in the hospital for three weeks, and then I've got forever.
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I had to wait until I was ready to go back to school and
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Don't work, go to school. And I mean, that's where you sit on the popo most of the time
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And don't do much. Of course, immunotherapy or gene therapy is complete.
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other approaches. You almost treat the disease at the point of origin and you could even go as far as
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Illnesses before they break out,
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For example, in gene therapy,
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by isolating and replacing the affected gene
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against a healthy gene,
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so that the disease would not break out.
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There is a medication,
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Now I don't know the name of it,
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This is the case with spinal muscular atrophy.
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This affects small children and if you do not inject the drug in time,
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This gene therapy, then they also have no high life expectancy.
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So this is a syringe and after that the child is so that it no longer gets sicker,
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because nerve cells are broken down and well, they do not grow back and if there is a
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If there is damage, then the damage remains, but it does not get worse.
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And the sooner you discover it, the less damage there will be.
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The only problem is, this syringe costs 1.5 million and the health insurance companies pay
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I like 1.5 million. In the case of Acne Inversa and other autoimmune diseases, the
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Therapy likes times so per syringe, per infusion between 4,000 and 8,000 euros. Some must be on
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Be given at the beginning of each month and then later on in success you can try whether you can
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Increased quarterly. So we're talking about
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Really expensive costs. If you have these
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Doing therapy, still coming
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any laboratory tests, so
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We like to cover costs in the quarter of
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20,000 euros to speak. This is
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A lot of money for a man.
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And whether this is justified in relation to others and then we come back to the question, when is suffering suffering?
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I can say I'm affected by psoriasis.
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That wasn't so bad now, but that's annoying.
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The only thing that matters is that when I bloom, I simply leave a mountain of skin.
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That's annoying, that's really annoying. When I change my sheets, what I do weekly and then take down the sheet,
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I still have a mattress protector under the bed sheet and this mattress protector is full of skin powder from me.
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That's not horny now, but that's really a lot of skin, which is there.
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So that's when you sweep that together, it's a small pile.
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And what can I say about that? I can't help it.
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I'm 40 years old, so I'm not 40, 39 years old.
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I gave this to my body for my birthday.
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That's when it started and I've been living with it ever since and that's okay.
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As long as this is not who knows how it is in the face, but only the knees,
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If my elbows are affected, that's all right for me.
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But if I had this on my face or if other skin orders were so badly affected that the skin tears open, then I would look too.
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I mean, then there's this MTX therapy.
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This is also expensive and it really needs to be checked very closely, with blood values and so on.
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And yes, I'll see if that's possible.
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I mean, people who know me and know what my biography is like, I had 2018, no, 2016 was that, excuse me, 2006 I had a severe stroke and, since then, I also have to take a lot of medication.
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And I don't know if the MTX is compatible with it, because my entire medication would have to be changed.
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And if I know one thing, then I don't feel like having another stroke,
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because to learn food, to learn speech, to relearn everything, to relearn fine motor skills,
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because I was completely paralyzed on the half side, I couldn't swallow,
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Toilets and everything had to be re-learned
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and still have trouble today when I go upstairs,
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Then I'm really scared.
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And then I don't know if I'd rather live with the problem of psoriasis,
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It's like being afraid to be as helpless as I was then.
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It is an interesting experience anyway if you are an external media caregiver and
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Then we need care.
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That's why I can understand anyone who goes there and does immunotherapy like that.
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As I said, this is not an issue for me, but stay with me in families, in the familiar environment.
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And then those are the considerations. How does it work? What are side effects? Can I do this with medication?
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And when I look at the track record that the person has, that's really respect.
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So this person now has almost four weeks to make several appointments.
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Thoracic X-rays of the thoracic cage must also be taken,
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to rule out whether there is tuberculosis or another lung infection.
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Yes, so there's really a lot going on and the person already had the first round
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Vaccine refreshers and then also slight vaccination reaction. I'm not just talking about it now,
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that the puncture site is a bit red, but neatly flash Peter and says,
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That's awkward. I mean, that's the question and the way it is now.
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In the case of a vaccination, the immune system is trained. Whether I'm there now dead material syringe,
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so killed viruses, or whether I have genetic material with a virus, so where the genetic
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material against which one now wants to vaccinate, the virus, is packaged in another virus, which is a light
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Reaction of the immune system causes the immune system to stop being trained
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the desired pathogen.
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It's also totally crazy that this is the case.
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Yeah, but most of the time it's kind of like that.
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gastrointestinal infections,
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Slight colds, so light renoviruses and so on.
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And if you are unlucky, then you can get really sick.
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I remember my mother had now stopped vaccinating against the viral pneumonia
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She had just been in bed for three weeks.
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She was also told that this could happen.
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So it happens relatively often.
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And if you're unlucky, you're really sick.
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And she was really sick.
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Quite unlike my corona vaccine I had, I had a few days with my arm a little bit hurt around the puncture site and then was good.
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Yeah, so much for that.
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You always have to consider where you have the benefit factor.
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As I said, if at some point there is therapy and that would actually bother me so much with psoriasis, then maybe I would think about it.
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But as I said, the aspect with the stroke, that was enough for me.
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Then to the person with the Akneinversa. So if you go to the surgeon in a weekly rhythm or stop at the
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weekend then can go to the hospital to cut any abscesses,
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because you have such pain that you can no longer walk or even the T-shirt
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If you can feel it on your skin, then I can understand that you are looking for every straw that helps.
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If all this works and I really keep my fingers crossed that it works,
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Then it will be a new life. And this is also the case with the syringe for the children with the
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Spinal muscular atrophy. It's a damn expensive syringe. I mean, 1.5 million is
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Damn a lot of money. But this will only save a human life, which otherwise only stops
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It would go for a few years. Not everyone is lucky to be able to spend 10 years
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Most of them died relatively early. And when that aspect comes along,
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that life has so many great things to offer and you learn something new every day and actually
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you're already terminally ill because you can move less and less and it must be just as bad
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like ALS, where he sits in your body at some point and where the body then at some point
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You can't breathe anymore because the nervous system has forgotten how to breathe. So I can
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Understand, if you go and then say, "Yes, well, then I'm fighting to make my child
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Get that injection. Or if you can afford to pay for it yourself,
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Or find someone who pays for it. It's a lot of money and normal.
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Immunotherapy is a lot of money. And when I think about what kind of aids I have,
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which are in the 200-300 Euro range, I already have to fight with my health insurance,
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Because something gets rejected all the time, I don't want to know what kind of fight you have.
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Because of such a therapy, where it's about a little more money. In this sense, thank you
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I'm glad you listened and I look forward to seeing you next time.
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Deviation, where I'm guaranteed to deviate far too little from the actual topic,
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What is the name of the diversion? And leave your greetings there. Your Sasha.
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Farewell to you!
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In this episode, the divergence I dive into the subject Immunotherapies a – a field of modern medicine that has made enormous progress in recent years and can be a glimmer of hope for many people affected by autoimmune diseases. But what exactly is behind the term immunotherapy? How does it work? And why is it becoming more common in diseases such as Acne inversa, psoriasis or Rheumatic diseases used?
I will explain to you the three main mechanisms of action of these therapies: Monoclonal antibodies, which specifically block certain receptors in the immune system, via Immunomodulators, which regulate the immune system in its activity, up to vaccine-like procedures, which are intended to trigger a specific immune response. I show how different these approaches work and for which diseases they are used.
In addition to the medical background, I also share personal experiences and observations from my environment. Especially with serious illnesses such as Acne inversa, It quickly becomes clear why targeted immunotherapy is often the only way out when classic drugs fail or are no longer tolerated.
But this is not the end of the topic: I'm also talking about the downsides of these treatments. High costs, Extensive preliminary examinations, Strict medical requirements and this Increased risk of infection These are factors that should not be underestimated. I also take a look at the ethical and moral questions that inevitably arise: How much influence can we have on our bodies? Is it okay if health insurance companies have to pay several thousand euros for a single treatment? And who decides which life is worth this effort?
This episode is not a medical talk, but a personal and critical look at a topic that affects many of us at some point – whether it is due to our own illness or in the circle of family and friends.
I invite you to think, to discuss and to take a different perspective. In the end, the question remains: When is suffering "bad enough"? And who determines that?
🧭 Topic overview
1. Welcome and Introduction
– Personal reference to the subject
– Why immunotherapy is particularly relevant
2. What is immunotherapy?
– Basic principle: Influencing the immune system instead of treating symptoms
– Differences from traditional medication
3. Three mechanisms of action at a glance
– Monoclonal antibodies
– Immunomodulators
– Vaccine-like therapies
4. Areas of application
– Acne inversa
– Psoriasis
– Rheumatic diseases
– Cancer and infections
5. Advantages and disadvantages
– Less side effects, targeted effect
– High costs, many preliminary investigations
– Risk of infection, compulsory vaccination, exclusion criteria
6. Personal Experiences and Ethical Issues
– What is suffering?
– What is a human life worth?
– Next stage of gene therapy
– Stroke experience and risk assessment
7. Everyday life with chronic illness
– Living with psoriasis
– Example of acne inversa: Pain, surgery, restrictions
– The long road to immunotherapy
8. Outlook & Conclusion
– What does the future hold?
– Why education is important
– Farewell
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Contributors to this episode
Sascha
Playing time: 0:29:02
Date of admission: 06.08.25
This episode is from season 4, there are a total of 4 seasons.
One According to Funk Publication Cartel Production - Where stories are transmitted unmistakably.
Podcast license:
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Author: Sascha Markmann
Sascha Markmann is a creative mind with a moving biography – and a person who has rediscovered life after a stroke. After working as a paramedic and elderly caregiver, Sascha found his way into creative expression. As a blogger, podcaster, musician and visual storyteller, he brings together things that just don't fit at first glance: He combines his keen enthusiasm for technology – from self-hosted servers to electronic music production – with emotional depth and an oblique sense of humor. His contributions are somewhere between borderline, acid basslines and assistance – honestly, directly and with a wink. Guiding principle: “Audio-visual dullness with no usefulness – but perhaps that's why it's so valuable.” View all posts by Sascha Markmann
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