| transcript | |
|---|---|
|
00:00 - 0:00:02
*Music*
|
|
|
0:00:02 – 0:00:31
[Music]
|
|
|
0:00:31 – 0:00:37
Hello and welcome to a new edition of the digression, where I occasionally
|
|
|
0:00:37 – 0:00:46
The subject is digressive. Almost always. I'm Sascha Markmann and I say hello.
|
|
|
0:00:46 – 0:00:57
Today's topic is something I've been on the list for a bit longer and
|
|
|
0:00:57 – 0:01:10
It is about everyday racism. Yes, everyday racism. There's such a thing. I was sitting in the bathroom the other day.
|
|
|
0:01:10 – 0:01:19
And then I heard people talking outside and I thought, oh, there's something in there again
|
|
|
0:01:19 – 0:01:30
In the direction of Russia, Ukraine, somehow. And that's how I thought, hello, that's everyday racism?
|
|
|
0:01:30 – 0:01:41
Somehow like that? Yeah, and let's talk about that. What is everyday racism? Everyday racism
|
|
|
0:01:41 – 0:01:59
This is a subtle form that sometimes unconsciously produces discriminatory or prejudiced expressions in daily interactions with people.
|
|
|
0:01:59 – 0:02:02
This is often not even meant badly or anything like that.
|
|
|
0:02:02 – 0:02:10
That's just, if you ask the taxi driver with an immigration background, tell me, where do you actually come from?
|
|
|
0:02:10 – 0:02:14
Or where is your home?
|
|
|
0:02:14 – 0:02:18
Yes, such things, for example.
|
|
|
0:02:18 – 0:02:26
Especially popular are things like, but they speak good German for a foreigner.
|
|
|
0:02:26 – 0:02:36
But it can also be things like that people with an immigration background are much more often controlled by the regulatory office and the police.
|
|
|
0:02:36 – 0:02:45
And sometimes there are such small, subtle aggressions.
|
|
|
0:02:45 – 0:02:54
actions that are harmful to those affected.
|
|
|
0:02:54 – 0:02:56
I just can't think of an example.
|
|
|
0:02:56 – 0:03:01
But on the whole, these are actions, statements,
|
|
|
0:03:01 – 0:03:05
They are not bad for the one who does them.
|
|
|
0:03:05 – 0:03:10
But with those where it comes,
|
|
|
0:03:10 – 0:03:14
Again and again the feeling is produced,
|
|
|
0:03:14 – 0:03:20
Boy or girl, you don't belong here. You're not one of us.
|
|
|
0:03:20 – 0:03:25
This is everyday racism.
|
|
|
0:03:25 – 0:03:34
I have to say, after my toilet experience, I was pretty ashamed of it.
|
|
|
0:03:34 – 0:03:40
You have to say I have had Russian for 12 years in school
|
|
|
0:03:40 – 0:03:55
And actually, I should already be able to distinguish whether this is now Russian, Ukrainian or any other language out of the room.
|
|
|
0:03:55 – 0:04:02
But well, I was easily overwhelmed with English.
|
|
|
0:04:02 – 0:04:06
And why a language that I would most likely never have to contradict?
|
|
|
0:04:06 – 0:04:12
I think they could have lured me with Japanese or something rather than Russian.
|
|
|
0:04:12 – 0:04:20
Well, I couldn't choose it.
|
|
|
0:04:20 – 0:04:27
And then there's the issue of how everyday racism works.
|
|
|
0:04:27 – 0:04:37
The one who says it does not perceive it as that and does not recognize it.
|
|
|
0:04:37 – 0:04:41
However, it is still hurtful for those affected.
|
|
|
0:04:41 – 0:04:49
And when I think about how many times I've asked my life in the foreign taxi driver,
|
|
|
0:04:49 – 0:04:51
Tell me, where do you come from?
|
|
|
0:04:51 – 0:04:54
Is it always a sting?
|
|
|
0:04:54 – 0:05:08
I had actually once had a taxi driver, who then told me quite cleverly that he came from the city where I am right now.
|
|
|
0:05:08 – 0:05:16
And I had already been slightly shocked and also hurt because he suddenly rules like that.
|
|
|
0:05:16 – 0:05:19
For me, the question wasn't even that stupid.
|
|
|
0:05:19 – 0:05:32
But you have to say, I have many of the nurses I have here who come to me.
|
|
|
0:05:32 – 0:05:43
come or even from the other supporting institutions, there are many with an immigration background
|
|
|
0:05:43 – 0:05:49
And then I talked to them as normal and then at some point I'll come along.
|
|
|
0:05:49 – 0:06:00
Then the question of what part of the world they came to us from. And I really find it
|
|
|
0:06:00 – 0:06:07
It's difficult now, because I don't see this concept of everyday racism as such.
|
|
|
0:06:07 – 0:06:19
I felt so hurtful. So these questions, until I stop there sometimes with some people
|
|
|
0:06:19 – 0:06:25
With an immigrant background, I've talked about how they perceive it. And they have
|
|
|
0:06:25 – 0:06:32
Everyone said it made them feel like they weren't part of it. And that's really
|
|
|
0:06:32 – 0:06:42
It's awful. Other points as well. I live in the Ruhr area and there are cities that have
|
|
|
0:06:42 – 0:06:49
a very high proportion of people with an immigration background, sometimes over 20 percent.
|
|
|
0:06:49 – 0:06:58
I think there are districts in Gelsenkirchen, there is more than 25 percent. And if you then
|
|
|
0:06:58 – 0:07:07
Consider how this has changed in recent years, the picture. In my childhood and
|
|
|
0:07:07 – 0:07:14
You saw very few Muslim women wearing a headscarf when they were young. The
|
|
|
0:07:14 – 0:07:27
sometimes had impossible clothes on, a pair of pants under a skirt, such an Adidas or something,
|
|
|
0:07:27 – 0:07:36
And that always looked weird to us kids, but you didn't think about it that way.
|
|
|
0:07:36 – 0:07:51
Or something like that. The Turks were just around the corner and that was normal. And when I think about it,
|
|
|
0:07:51 – 0:07:58
how many people I see here in the big city now, who are also fully veiled,
|
|
|
0:07:58 – 0:08:07
It's strange to me, but I can accept it. Don't understand, but accept,
|
|
|
0:08:07 – 0:08:13
Let people take that step. Or when I'm sitting at the doctor's, sometimes I'm sitting there
|
|
|
0:08:13 – 0:08:20
Older men who wear traditional clothes from their home country. Whereby I
|
|
|
0:08:20 – 0:08:33
Then always think, this looks funny and these are all everyday racist thoughts. I know
|
|
|
0:08:33 – 0:08:40
Not what I'm supposed to call it. And I said before, I'm sometimes ashamed of
|
|
|
0:08:40 – 0:08:47
such thoughts and I sometimes hear and there are also people who then really say,
|
|
|
0:08:47 – 0:08:54
If we are standing in the old place or something, that looks impossible, so completely veiled.
|
|
|
0:08:54 – 0:09:05
But they say it so loud, even though they say it quietly, but so loud that the affected person
|
|
|
0:09:05 – 0:09:15
I can hear that. And sometimes you realize that people are hurt, even if you don't
|
|
|
0:09:15 – 0:09:23
You can see a lot from the face, but you can see the game in the eyes. Yes, I find it difficult,
|
|
|
0:09:23 – 0:09:31
Just because this is totally foreign in my culture and we actually have laws,
|
|
|
0:09:31 – 0:09:41
who prohibit a total masking in certain situations, I can accept that,
|
|
|
0:09:41 – 0:09:47
That they do, but I'll never understand. I know that sounds real now
|
|
|
0:09:47 – 0:09:59
It's hard, and that's one of the things you can really put yourself in the nuts with. me
|
|
|
0:09:59 – 0:10:09
I have been described the days when someone who is very open is committed to phenomism.
|
|
|
0:10:09 – 0:10:13
And I always thought I was very enlightened.
|
|
|
0:10:13 – 0:10:21
And I heard that in the, how can you say, the compliments.
|
|
|
0:10:21 – 0:10:24
There were several people who said that.
|
|
|
0:10:24 – 0:10:37
That's really, I always wonder what my external perception is, because I have these thoughts, like I do all the time, oh, not Russian again.
|
|
|
0:10:37 – 0:10:46
And on the other hand, I always think I'm such an enlightened person and should actually be cosmopolitan.
|
|
|
0:10:46 – 0:10:54
I have lived and worked in other countries for a longer or a shorter time in my life.
|
|
|
0:10:54 – 0:11:01
In England, in France, in Portugal, in Spain.
|
|
|
0:11:01 – 0:11:04
Everywhere I went, I was a foreigner.
|
|
|
0:11:04 – 0:11:09
Europeans, but foreigners.
|
|
|
0:11:09 – 0:11:13
And that's funny, isn't it?
|
|
|
0:11:13 – 0:11:21
I really think if you haven't had that experience, you don't know how hurtful that is.
|
|
|
0:11:21 – 0:11:27
I recently had a taxi driver from Afghanistan.
|
|
|
0:11:27 – 0:11:34
But for me it looked like an Asian, like a Chinese or something.
|
|
|
0:11:34 – 0:11:40
And on the way out we had talked about normal things and on the way back
|
|
|
0:11:40 – 0:11:47
It also depends on where you come from, what you do.
|
|
|
0:11:47 – 0:11:53
And no, I didn't ask the question, but he told that about himself, his story.
|
|
|
0:11:53 – 0:12:01
After I told a little bit about myself, because I just came from a treatment from the hospital and so on.
|
|
|
0:12:01 – 0:12:05
And then he asked how it was.
|
|
|
0:12:05 – 0:12:08
And then he came along and told his story.
|
|
|
0:12:08 – 0:12:18
The interesting thing was that he is perceived by Asian people as one of them.
|
|
|
0:12:18 – 0:12:25
And he said so, then he is addressed in Chinese or in Vietnamese.
|
|
|
0:12:25 – 0:12:34
And he said then, I'm sorry, I can't understand because the language is really a very clean German.
|
|
|
0:12:34 – 0:12:39
So really at a very high level, sometimes better than me.
|
|
|
0:12:39 – 0:12:48
And he said, I'm sorry, I'm from Afghanistan and then there's always the big one,
|
|
|
0:12:48 – 0:12:49
The unbelieving stumbling block.
|
|
|
0:12:49 – 0:12:57
Because there is a minority in Afghanistan, a small group of people and maybe
|
|
|
0:12:57 – 0:13:01
Remember the Buddha statues that were blown up by the Taliban a few years ago?
|
|
|
0:13:01 – 0:13:09
have. There in the area, there lives this minority. They are Buddhist, then later forced Islamized.
|
|
|
0:13:09 – 0:13:18
They are Buddhists and have their own culture. And then they stop,
|
|
|
0:13:18 – 0:13:27
Even though they have changed their religion, they fear for their lives.
|
|
|
0:13:27 – 0:13:35
Because the Taliban have made a relatively short trial, they are stopped.
|
|
|
0:13:35 – 0:13:45
It was the escape. And then he also told that the acquaintance has, they are Mongols, and the
|
|
|
0:13:45 – 0:13:53
They told him that if he went to Mongolia and didn't say a word, he would have to go to Mongolia.
|
|
|
0:13:53 – 0:13:59
Not even an entry passport, because everyone would think he was Mongol.
|
|
|
0:13:59 – 0:14:10
And that's so interesting because he looks different. He looks different than he does on the
|
|
|
0:14:10 – 0:14:17
The paper is. I know I'm talking about head and collar right now, but I just wanted to
|
|
|
0:14:17 – 0:14:24
say that we humans always pay attention to appearances and then our
|
|
|
0:14:24 – 0:14:29
Draw conclusions and that doesn't always have to be. When I think about how long
|
|
|
0:14:29 – 0:14:36
the Turks lived as guest workers in Germany and then later became part of our
|
|
|
0:14:36 – 0:14:46
Society have been and I love the Turkish food and I find many parts in the Turkish
|
|
|
0:14:46 – 0:14:52
Culture is fascinating and interesting and especially the hospitality. And this
|
|
|
0:14:52 – 0:14:57
I also live here in Germany. When I went to my Turkish friends,
|
|
|
0:14:57 – 0:15:03
My mom always told me that when I was home, I wasn't hungry.
|
|
|
0:15:03 – 0:15:14
had more. Yeah, just so much for that. I always like it as much as people from other countries.
|
|
|
0:15:14 – 0:15:19
Countries can enrich a culture. And we wouldn't have a "Civapcici" here if
|
|
|
0:15:19 – 0:15:25
There were no people from the Balkans. We wouldn't have ice cream or pizza.
|
|
|
0:15:25 – 0:15:30
If only people from Italy had come to Germany to work and then later
|
|
|
0:15:30 – 0:15:39
with an ice dilo or pizzeria. And I think that's the point.
|
|
|
0:15:39 – 0:15:46
People come to Germany to live here and we go and talk to them
|
|
|
0:15:46 – 0:15:50
It's because we always ask, "Where do you come from?"
|
|
|
0:15:50 – 0:15:56
I mean, it's just a collection of prejudices.
|
|
|
0:15:56 – 0:16:02
If my mother had told earlier, at the barracks where the guest workers lived,
|
|
|
0:16:02 – 0:16:07
You weren't allowed to pass by as a young girl, because you don't know,
|
|
|
0:16:07 – 0:16:16
It's happening. They were young men, and they might have given me a compliment.
|
|
|
0:16:16 – 0:16:25
And if this is also a different mentality in Italy, that you can also give a girl
|
|
|
0:16:25 – 0:16:32
If you can whistle afterwards, that's how it was frowned upon at the time. I mean, the German men have it
|
|
|
0:16:32 – 0:16:38
Also made. But they were foreigners and they are not allowed to do so in our German media.
|
|
|
0:16:38 – 0:16:46
And today there is no thought about it. In the house where I live, there are several
|
|
|
0:16:46 – 0:16:55
Nationalities and I think that's interesting, because every now and then you smell something
|
|
|
0:16:55 – 0:17:04
with his neighbors. Then you talk and that sometimes smells interesting when food
|
|
|
0:17:04 – 0:17:14
is cooked. And I find enriching experiences and stories from other people.
|
|
|
0:17:14 – 0:17:20
And then I get to the point where I thought again, I'm sitting on the toilet and
|
|
|
0:17:20 – 0:17:24
And think, oh, not Russian again.
|
|
|
0:17:24 – 0:17:28
No matter how enlightened I am, no matter how
|
|
|
0:17:28 – 0:17:32
How eloquent I am,
|
|
|
0:17:32 – 0:17:36
I see that I also have these
|
|
|
0:17:36 – 0:17:40
Structures and these images have in mind, these
|
|
|
0:17:40 – 0:17:43
Yes,
|
|
|
0:17:43 – 0:17:47
That's not bad if I ask where you come from.
|
|
|
0:17:47 – 0:17:49
Where do you come from?
|
|
|
0:17:49 – 0:18:02
It's not bad for me, but I've experienced and learned that it hurts other people.
|
|
|
0:18:02 – 0:18:11
And I really find it, yeah, how am I supposed to do that without talking to people with a headache again,
|
|
|
0:18:11 – 0:18:20
It is unfortunate that I can't get out of this thinking.
|
|
|
0:18:20 – 0:18:23
Yeah, I think that's better worded.
|
|
|
0:18:23 – 0:18:30
Because I've said before that I would like to have it different, because I perceive myself differently.
|
|
|
0:18:30 – 0:18:32
I don't know how it is with you.
|
|
|
0:18:32 – 0:18:37
I would like to talk to you about it in the comments,
|
|
|
0:18:37 – 0:18:42
What your experience is or how you think about it.
|
|
|
0:18:42 – 0:18:46
Have you ever seen yourself, as you say?
|
|
|
0:18:46 – 0:18:49
In fact, it was everyday racism.
|
|
|
0:18:49 – 0:18:54
I look forward to a lively exchange in the comments and say
|
|
|
0:18:54 – 0:18:58
Thanks for listening and until next time.
|
|
|
0:18:58 – 0:19:00
Goodbye, Sasha.
|
|
|
0:19:00 – 0:19:02
[Music]
|
|
|
0:19:02 – 0:19:05
[Music]
|
|
|
0:19:05 – 0:19:11
[Music]
|
|
|
0:19:11 – 0:19:17
[Music]
|
|
|
0:19:17 – 0:19:23
[Music]
|
|
|
0:19:23 – 0:19:29
[Music]
|
|
|
0:19:29 – 0:19:32
[Music]
|
|
|
0:19:32 – 0:19:38
[Music]
|
|
|
0:19:38 – 0:19:44
[Music]
|
|
|
0:19:44 – 0:19:50
[Music]
|
|
|
0:19:50 – 0:19:56
[Music]
|
|
|
0:19:56 – 0:19:59
[Music]
|
|
|
0:19:59 – 0:20:05
[Music]
|
|
|
0:20:05 – 0:20:11
[Music]
|
|
|
0:20:11 – 0:20:17
[Music]
|
|
|
0:20:17 – 0:20:23
[Music]
|
|
|
0:20:23 – 0:20:26
[Music]
|
|
|
0:20:26 – 0:20:32
[Music]
|
|
|
0:20:32 – 0:20:38
[Music]
|
|
|
0:20:38 – 0:20:44
[Music]
|
|
|
0:20:44 – 0:20:50
[Music]
|
|
|
0:20:50 – 0:20:53
[Music]
|
|
|
0:20:53 – 0:20:59
[Music]
|
|
|
0:20:59 – 0:21:05
[Music]
|
|
|
0:21:05 – 0:21:11
[Music]
|
|
|
0:21:11 – 0:21:17
[Music]
|
|
|
0:21:17 – 0:21:46
[Music]
|
|
|
0:21:46 – 0:21:49
[Music]
|
|
|
0:21:49 – 0:21:57
[Music]
|
|
|
0:21:57 – 0:22:05
[Music]
|
|
|
0:22:05 – 0:22:13
[Music]
|
|
|
0:22:13 – 0:22:16
[Music]
|
|
|
0:22:16 – 0:22:22
[Music]
|
|
|
0:22:22 – 0:22:28
[Music]
|
|
|
0:22:28 – 0:22:34
[Music]
|
|
|
0:22:34 – 0:22:41
[Music]
|
|
|
0:22:41 – 0:22:44
[Music]
|
|
|
0:22:44 – 0:22:50
[Music]
|
|
|
0:22:50 – 0:22:56
[Music]
|
|
|
0:22:56 – 0:23:02
[Music]
|
|
|
0:23:02 – 0:23:08
[Music]
|
|
|
0:23:08 – 0:23:19
[Music]
|
|
|
0:23:19 – 0:23:21
[Music]
|
In this episode, the divergence Sascha talks about a topic that is often overlooked because it is so commonplace: Everyday racism.
A conversation with yourself about language, prejudice and shame.
Why it can be hurtful to ask someone: ‘Where do you come from?’, and how quickly unconscious thought patterns work without us noticing it.
Sascha shares her own experiences – from the toilet moment to encounters with taxi drivers to honest self-criticism.
A consequence about humanity, reflection and the admission that enlightened people also have blind spots.
A food for thought for all those who want to understand themselves and society better.
🎧 Thematic breakdown
1. Introduction – The moment on the toilet
- Start with the anecdote: casual conversation in the background → first association ‘Russian or Ukrainian?’
- First self-reflection: Why do I think so?
- Humorous but honest introduction to a serious topic.
2. What is everyday racism?
- Definition: Unconscious, often unwanted discrimination in everyday life.
- Examples:
– ‘Where do you come from?’
– ‘You speak German well.’
– More frequent police checks or subtle devaluation. - Difference Between Bad Intention and Structural Behavior.
3. The Invisible Boundary – When Words Hurt
- Why well-meaning isn't always well-made.
- How such statements create a sense of exclusion.
- Reactions of those affected – from exhaustion to anger.
- The dilemma: Understanding vs. trivialisation.
4. Own experiences and blind spots
- Sascha's reflection on previous conversations with taxi drivers, nursing staff, neighbors.
- The realization that enlightenment does not automatically free one from prejudice.
- Emotional component: Shame and the desire to do better.
5. Social perspective
- How cultural diversity changes everyday life.
- Generational differences: what used to be ‘normal’ and is now considered discriminatory.
- Example of the Ruhr area: Diversity as a mirror of society.
- Between acceptance and incomprehension – the tension between living together.
6. Meetings that change something
- History of the Afghan taxi driver and the Buddhist minority.
- Perception of appearances – how quickly we open drawers.
- A positive example: mutual respect, interest and openness in dialogue.
7. From Prejudice to Enrichment
- How immigration has enriched culture, language, food and music.
- Everyday situations that show: Diversity is normality.
- From stranger to confidant – what integration really means.
8. Self-criticism and inner work
- The question: “How open am I really?”
- Why it takes courage to recognize one's own thinking patterns.
- Strategies against unconscious prejudice: Listening, reflecting, becoming aware.
- Invitation to listeners to share their own experiences.
9. Closing - Between Knowledge and Change
- Summary: Everyday racism often begins in the mind.
- Calling for respectful togetherness.
- Personal conclusion with honest conclusion: “I am not free – but I want to do better.”
- Looking forward to comments, exchange and discussion.
Advertising:
Contributors to this episode
Sascha
Playing time: 0:23:21
Date of admission: 09.10.25
This episode is from season 4, there are a total of 4 seasons.
One According to Funk Publication Cartel Production - Where stories are transmitted unmistakably.
Podcast license:
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License
Note: This post contains affiliate links. If you shop through these links, I'll get a small commission at no extra cost to you.
Related posts
Discover more from LautFunk Podcast & Blog
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
Author: Sascha Markmann
Sascha Markmann is a creative mind with a moving biography – and a person who has rediscovered life after a stroke. After working as a paramedic and elderly caregiver, Sascha found his way into creative expression. As a blogger, podcaster, musician and visual storyteller, he brings together things that just don't fit at first glance: He combines his keen enthusiasm for technology – from self-hosted servers to electronic music production – with emotional depth and an oblique sense of humor. His contributions are somewhere between borderline, acid basslines and assistance – honestly, directly and with a wink. Guiding principle: “Audio-visual dullness with no usefulness – but perhaps that's why it's so valuable.” View all posts by Sascha Markmann
English