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00:00 - 0:00:15
[Music]
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0:00:15 – 0:00:18
Hello and welcome to a new episode of digression.
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0:00:18 – 0:00:20
Where I am from the subject...
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Yeah, go astray. Occasionally.
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Almost always. Actually mostly.
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Somehow.
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0:00:28 – 0:00:33
I was thinking today, let's talk about symbolism.
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0:00:33 – 0:00:36
Symbols. Memes.
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0:00:36 – 0:00:39
And that's why...
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I had a couple of colleagues for a podcast I'm doing now.
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0:00:45 – 0:00:50
It's about music production for hobbyists.
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0:00:50 – 0:00:53
And there was...
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0:00:53 – 0:01:00
There I have the entire transcript, i.e. the pure text of the entire podcast,
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0:01:00 – 0:01:03
Thrown into Chat-GBT and said,
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0:01:03 – 0:01:09
Let's take a look at some of the topics in this podcast.
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0:01:09 – 0:01:11
And that's what he did.
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0:01:11 – 0:01:18
And we just talked in the podcast about a music fair, about expensive knife eating,
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0:01:18 – 0:01:27
on a ban on going out from Sunday, because on the site where the fair takes place,
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0:01:27 – 0:01:33
Frogs are breeding or looking for a partner.
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0:01:33 – 0:01:38
And about many other things as well.
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0:01:38 – 0:01:46
Among other things, there was such a joke that it just...
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0:01:46 – 0:01:51
The maximist... What's that name now?
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Maxism.
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There are also trends in the music scene.
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0:01:58 – 0:02:04
And Chat-GBT has gone, has read all this well there
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0:02:04 – 0:02:08
And then I started to take the pictures.
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0:02:08 – 0:02:18
On the one hand, there was a flag of the old Soviet Union, i.e. star and sickle.
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0:02:18 – 0:02:29
Then there was Pepe the frog and I think fruit or something on the table.
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0:02:29 – 0:02:35
In addition to all the microphones, mixer, synthesizer and stuff.
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0:02:35 – 0:02:42
And my colleagues then said, because of the EU election we had now,
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0:02:42 – 0:02:47
You can't do that with the Communist flag.
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0:02:47 – 0:02:55
In addition, we would have only talked about the topic for a few minutes, maybe for a minute.
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0:02:55 – 0:03:06
And Pepe the Frog, which is a very well-known meme for stupid situations,
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0:03:06 – 0:03:14
Someone who is soft, at least I know that,
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It's from the Q-Anon area.
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And now I have to think about it.
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0:03:29 – 0:03:35
So Pepe the Frog is there I think originated on the website 4chan.
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0:03:35 – 0:03:41
And that was such a meme page, so there were always four pictures.
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0:03:41 – 0:03:48
4chan, that had just developed out of something from Japan,
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in which someone had stolen the source code and then made four pictures instead of two pictures.
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And that was just for such stupid situations,
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And that's a long time ago, so it's still happening in time before 4chan.
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Anonymous, you know what I mean, this hacker collective formed.
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0:04:19 – 0:04:25
Because everyone is anonymous and if you post anonymously, you just stand anonymous, posted anonymously.
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0:04:25 – 0:04:34
And that's what Q-Anon did at the time of the pandemic and maybe until before that.
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It also reminds me of people's stupidity.
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Blue hearts, people, blue hearts.
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There is such a party in Germany with three letters, just like many others,
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They mainly have the color blue.
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It was once extremely liberal, perhaps even a bit more economic liberal than the FDP,
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but are now a collection pool of, what do I call it now,
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Right thoughts. And even worse.
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And blue hearts are made by people who celebrate this party and also call it good,
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She likes to express her love in comments.
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Just as the salmon miley was used among postings during the coronavirus period,
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To ridicule the one who answered.
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You sleep, you don't know what's going on.
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This was liked by the people who were against the whole Corona policy
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or people who have very strange ideas, these Schoblers, as they say so nicely.
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And I thought so and thought so,
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Yes, just because certain symbols have been mentalized by other instruments in the past,
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0:06:29 – 0:06:35
I can no longer use certain things in this way today, except in certain scientific ways.
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or historical context, such as a swastika, the sun wheel and many other things,
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as very pigmented examples.
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I mean, just because an "untalented" artist had somehow devised it
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as a symbol of recognition for his surrounding party, you can no longer use it today.
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0:07:04 – 0:07:10
I mean, it's a symbol that's been used in different cultures around the world
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And yes, this is no longer possible, because there are many bad deeds in our past,
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during the Third Reich.
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Just like stop in, I don't know what to call the scripture,
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in any case this very jagged SS two flashes or something, you can also in this constellation
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no longer use, because that then stands for the Waffen-SS, for a troop of soldiers
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of the Third Reich, who have really committed extremely horrific atrocities.
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And I'm wondering now, except for things that are really constitutionally problematic now,
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0:07:58 – 0:08:05
How far can I let myself be forbidden to use Pepe the frog now,
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Except that I run the risk of being warned because the original artist warns a lot.
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Forbid me to use these things because some idiots and people,
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Those who refuse to accept reality use it to represent their ideology or content.
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And I don't know how you feel about it, but when I think about it,
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so very simple punctuation marks, how often these are now used to convey any hate messages
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or spread it like that, then I shouldn't be able to use an exclamation mark anymore,
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because with it any bad orders, messages, hate messages, hate comments
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and so on to be written. Or let's say I have a lot of love for content creators.
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0:09:21 – 0:09:28
They like to use the green heart. If Friday for Futures were to be radicalized
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And if I took the identification mark, the green heart, I wouldn't be able to use it anymore,
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Or they can no longer use it because they are connected to terrorists or something like that.
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I find it a bit difficult that you can be influenced like that or something like that.
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I mean, to go back to the initial situation, that with the Marxist thoughts,
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that then a flag of an artificial intelligence will be put in there, because it
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In a few sentences, it is only a humorous statement that socialist, communist,
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Marxist thoughts or ideas are quite gladly represented among musicians.
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That then just goes and that you put this so frequent in a relatively large size in this picture as a flag.
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Okay, I mean, it's just a machine, it's just a stupid program, what did that.
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And even if I sometimes appreciate the skills, this is not always the case.
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So I often need a lot of attempts to generate a suitable picture, which corresponds to my ideas.
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That would be an interesting topic for the series anyway.
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Or maybe even borderline when I sit down again with Chad Geberier as an interview partner.
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Maybe I should do that, too.
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Where were we? I've just moved a little bit away from the subject.
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I don't understand why so many people are thinking about it.
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I mean, it's a hobby podcast and this topic pops up briefly.
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Well, it doesn't have to be so present.
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As one colleague said again, it's a bit of clickbaity.
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Maybe, I didn't have any interest in it, because I didn't create the picture.
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I didn't write that promptly either.
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I put the transcript in there and said, get a picture of what the topics in this show are.
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And if an artificial intelligence or whatever a neural network means that this was an important topic, then that was the case.
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Is that really the case now? I don't know. I don't know.
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For me, this was just such a funny talk, where I immediately realized as a human being that this is not meant seriously and has no importance.
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I don't consider such things important, because the podcast plays in a rehearsal room,
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0:13:02 – 0:13:10
even if the rehearsal room is extended throughout Germany or even a little bit of German-speaking foreign countries,
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This is a virtual space where we sit together and talk about such topics as hobby musicians.
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And even if we bring in guests who are professionals, it's all just a hobby.
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And there I do not know, also the train of thought, that now, due to the increased shift to the right within the European Union,
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With such a communist, Marxist Blablabla element in the picture sitting in the nettles, I don't know.
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I don't know. I mean, we still have the principle of freedom of speech.
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And if anyone makes themselves vulnerable, it's me because I'm posting all the shit here and all the stuff is all over my name.
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And yes, then I would get the mail with the warnings or with anything else.
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But not you. If anything, they only appear as internet projects.
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And I think that's a good thing, because that's how you can protect yourself from the other things that just run under my brand name "Lautfunkproduktionskartell".
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Because I also have sometimes very borderline topics, especially in the "borderline" podcasts, where it is sometimes about All Defens, where it is sometimes about attacks on women,
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physical or sexual violence. So again and again such topics, where you sometimes make yourself vulnerable, also make the guests vulnerable.
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I really want them to be protected. I mean, I can do that.
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I don't know if I've told this somewhere before, but for a while my partners and I had also streamed live and we actually had the police and fire brigade at the door with swatting action.
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0:15:44 – 0:16:04
And as annoying as that is, from a certain degree or something, that's just, yes again, okay, I have to deal with the gentlemen who explain what happened.
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0:16:04 – 0:16:20
And they usually have no idea or understanding for it, and then it's good. I mean, statements like "Turn this off and go to bed" - yes, very professionally, thank you.
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I'm also sorry if forces are tied up for joke calls or just to push me in.
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Food deliveries were arranged to the business address or from a more distant neighborhood huge quantities of drinks and such things.
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So I'm used to making myself vulnerable in places with what I do and that's why the protection of the people I work with is important to me.
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Or with the guests I have on the podcast.
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But I couldn't think of such other reasons now. I think that's really worth considering when you limit yourself because someone might have something against it.
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0:17:22 – 0:17:40
That's just like the Sarotti chocolate, that the mascot, the trademark they had, the Sarotti moor, I mean, that's what the character was called, even if that's racist now, but that's what the character was called,
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0:17:40 – 0:17:47
was taken away because the company was afraid that someone would feel turned on the tie.
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The so-called gypsy sauce is now the Balkan sauce, because it deflames the entire people of the Roma and Sinti with the term gypsies.
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I can still understand that when there was, but there was again someone who did not complain about it, but someone who is not affected by it, thought about the fact that someone might possibly have something against it.
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And that's why it was changed. Foam kisses are now called foam kisses, because maybe someone could object if the things, as they used to be called, I don't want to put the word in my mouth now, were called.
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Unfortunately, this happens to me far too often, that this still slips out of me, because the entire childhood and also my youth were so called.
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Interesting fun fact is, I have African-American family members in the family and they even found this funny in Germany, if they just ate a foam kiss, as they are called.
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Yeah, so no one came up with the idea. Oh my God, the evil N-word.
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Yes, I mean, I can understand it, but maybe because someone and these are perhaps extreme examples that I have now enumerated for this behavior.
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But that's exactly where I see it and that means in the end, I put chains on myself that I can't do something because I could make myself vulnerable.
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0:19:50 – 0:19:58
Or could have made it vulnerable. I think that's Plusquamperfekt. It is used super rarely.
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The German language. And just because of the fear that for something I've done in the past, I could be warned in the future, some people just don't do some things anymore.
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And I find this very problematic. I don't know how you see it. You can write that to me in the comments.
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Before this is still a 2-3 hour number, because I could even refer to it extremely extravagantly, we should end this now.
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I would be happy if you would really go into the discourse and would like to write me your opinion.
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You can do this wherever there is a podcast or stop under this podcast or in YouTube on the page with me in the blog and say thank you for listening.
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I would be happy if you will be there in the future. Goodbye, Sasha.
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0:21:15 – 0:21:31
[Music]
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Description:
In this episode of ‘deviation’, we dive deep into the fascinating world of symbolism and memes. Our host Sascha talks about a project where AI-generated images were created for a music production podcast. Interesting and sometimes controversial symbols were used, which led to exciting discussions. From the old Soviet Union flag to Pepe the Frog, we shed light on the history and meaning of these symbols and memes.
We learn how a harmless joke about Marxist tendencies in the music scene led to unexpected results and what challenges resulted from it. Sascha shares his thoughts on how certain symbols can no longer be used today due to their historical or cultural connotations and what this means for freedom of expression.
Another highlight of the episode is the discussion about the development of 4chan and how Pepe the Frog From a harmless cartoon character to a symbol of controversial political movements. We also take a look at the use of symbols and Emojis on social media, especially in the context of political debates during the coronavirus pandemic.
Sascha talks about how certain symbols such as the swastika or the SS flashes can no longer be used due to their history and how this is applied to other, less obvious symbols. The episode ends with a reflection on how we impose censorship on ourselves to avoid controversy, and what this means for freedom of expression.
Structure:
- introduction
- Welcome to the listeners
- Presentation of the topic: Symbolism and Memes
- background
- Explanation of the current project: AI-generated images for the music production podcast
- Brief presentation of colleagues and the podcast context
- AI and Symbolism
- Use of AI to create images
- Initial reactions and discussion about the generated symbols
- Controversial symbols
- Discussion on the use of the Soviet flag
- Pepe the Frog: From a harmless cartoon to a controversial symbol
- Historical context
- Development of 4chan and the origins of Pepe the Frog
- Historical symbols and their current meaning (e.g. swastika, SS flashes)
- Political symbolism
- Symbols and emojis on social media during the coronavirus pandemic
- Blue hearts and other political signs in the current landscape
- Self-censorship and freedom of expression
- How symbols are avoided today due to their connotations
- Reflection on the limits of freedom of expression and self-censorship
- Practical considerations
- Examples of symbols that can no longer be used (e.g. Sarotti bog, Gypsy sauce)
- Discussion on the impact of self-censorship on creative processes
- Personal experience
- Sascha shares personal experiences with swatting and other forms of harassment
- The importance of protecting guests and contributors
- Conclusion and outlook
- Summary of the main points
- Call for discussion and interaction with listeners
- Looking ahead to future themes and episodes
- completion
- Thanks to the listeners
- Adoption and reference to social media channels and contact options
This outline provides a structured and engaging order of topics to guide listeners through the episode.
Advertising:
Contributors to this episode
Sascha
Playing time: 0:21:31
Date of admission: 16.06.24
This episode is from season 4, there are a total of 4 seasons.
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Podcast license:
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Author: Sascha Markmann
Sascha Markmann is a creative mind with a moving biography – and a person who has rediscovered life after a stroke. After working as a paramedic and elderly caregiver, Sascha found his way into creative expression. As a blogger, podcaster, musician and visual storyteller, he brings together things that just don't fit at first glance: He combines his keen enthusiasm for technology – from self-hosted servers to electronic music production – with emotional depth and an oblique sense of humor. His contributions are somewhere between borderline, acid basslines and assistance – honestly, directly and with a wink. Guiding principle: “Audio-visual dullness with no usefulness – but perhaps that's why it's so valuable.” View all posts by Sascha Markmann
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